Curse

Hanok Odbrook · Jan 09, 2008, 11:34 AM // 11:34

Quote:

Originally Posted by Isileth

While I agree with you I still feel that the change would be for the better. While certain playstyles do stop you doing some things, there are some that could be changed so that others can have access.

And this is where part of the problem lies that I mentioned several posts ago. It's not quite as simple as dropping in an NPC coded to give another shot at the title track. For an off-line game with no public forum with which to share achievements - yes, a patch that includes such a change would be quick and easy for those who want it. However, as I said in that post, there are many other factors that have to be taken into consideration. If we change Survivor, (bonus content) to be accessible for everyone, then what about mini-pets for those who deleted characters before their introduction; festival hats for those who missed events; the exclusiveness of the track with LDoA and the fairness of either allowing LDers to get or not get their shot as well, etc.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Isileth

It wouldnt add or reduce grind, how you get the title is up to the player. You can get it through grind and farming, you could also get it by playing normally.

I'm probably not explaining my point here too clearly. What we have to look at here is what is the bare minimum required to satisfy the max level of the title tracks. With Survivor, the amount of XP that can be garnered by with a L1 character can be had simply by playing through the storyline of the game - grinding for the XP is not needed to satisfy the requirements. For titles such as Sunspear, the PvP titles, and even the mapping titles, you need to go through that repetativeness in order to max the title - be it in Hard Mode, through endless rounds in arenas, or having to re-visit the same mission area a few times in order to clear that last bit of fog.

Now since it is older characters we are talking about here - the XP that can be gained simply through playing through the storyline is no longer available. The only means of gaining XP is through monster hunting - be it in Hard Mode, elite missions, challenge missions, or less effectively, through the normal mode high end areas, and since this is a lot of XP we are talking about, some grinding (like that for the other titles) then becomes necessary in order to max the title out.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Isileth

And the rest of that line "or to use the excuse that older characters did not have a shot at it (which is patently untrue, as I have already shown)"

For all intents and purposes you can assume it isnt possible to take a char from the release of proph through to survivor being released without a death.
While it is possible the actual number of people who will have done it is hardly an ammount worthy of a counter argument.

The problem with this reasoning is that we can then consider the counter argument to be that had Survivor been an available title from the beginning, very few players would have had the ability to get it anyway (that whole "we were all noobs once" thing many people here mentioned), so in the end, it probably wouldn't have made much difference anyway, and so its not really worth changing in that regard.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Isileth

While I agree in part, this isnt because of the playstyle. This is because they cant attempt it on that char full stop.
Bonus content is only a bonus if you have a chance to access it. Thats all thats being asked for. A chance.

If due to their playstyle they fail then they have failed. But at least let those chars have the same chance to try it.

Well, we may all have differing views on accessability of content. I believe that all game play content/playable content should be fully accessible for everyone in any particular game. Bonus content should be just that - depending on what it is. If it's playable, such as the Bonus Mission Pack, then yes, everyone should be able to get it (hence my feelings that Anet failed terribly with this promotion). If it be content such as titles, which act more or less like typical Achievements, then no, it should not necessarily be readily accessible by everyone.

The end point ends up being that this title is still accessible for everyone. The fact that it can't be accessed for a particular character gets back to the whole playstyle thing. You have simply limited your options by choosing the particular character to have all the achievements on. Just as someone who chooses to keep the same build on their character limits their options, they are still free to either change that build to access otherwise inaccessible content or create a new character that can access that content. For me, the fact that players have decided they want the title for one particular character that can't get it still is not a compelling reason to change the title, when all other factors are also considered.

Hanok Odbrook
Real Millennium Group Guild

Arduin · Jan 09, 2008, 02:02 PM // 14:02

Whether this change is implemented or not, it will be far too easy for veteran chararacters to max this title. Just HFFF until your eyes bleed. 2000 xp every minute...survivor here i come.

Shadowmoon · Jan 09, 2008, 06:12 PM // 18:12

Quote:

Originally Posted by Arduinna

Whether this change is implemented or not, it will be far too easy for veteran chararacters to max this title. Just HFFF until your eyes bleed. 2000 xp every minute...survivor here i come.

and they don't already do this?

MithranArkanere · Jan 09, 2008, 09:24 PM // 21:24

The whole point of the thread is that it has become so easy for the new players that is unfair for the old ones.

Make it arder, by forcing player to earn XP only from monsters while in full parties of 4..8 players, and you'll see how the ones that would delete character to get it will complain.

StelardActek · Jan 11, 2008, 10:15 AM // 10:15

I think that it's important to note, that assuming all the other things Hanok mentioned (hats, mini-pets et cetera) can and should be fixed -- and I'm not sure I can see a way it could even be done, for pets anyway -- even assuming there are many things that should be done, there is no reason they have to all be done at once. I think removing one thing that is bad for loyal players is a good place to start.

Oh, and Mithran, some people only play with one or two other people...

An lastly, if people want to HFFF until their eyes bleed, that should be their choice. It'll still take time. They do it anyway now, poor boring dredges that they are. So what difference does it make if veteran characters can do it too?

Friar Khan · Jan 19, 2008, 09:02 PM // 21:02

In my opinion, the best way to do this is:

If you've gotten Survivor or LDoA on a (new) character and then start to delete it, and if you have another PvE character of the same profession, there should be a dialog asking you if you'd like to transfer the title that other character.

Other methods just seem messy to me.

I don't agree with the idea that Anet shouldn't ever allow older characters to get a title like Survivor. If Anet has the time to code it then there'll be people who'll enjoy it and it won't cheapen the title considerably. On the other hand, if they don't have time to code it into the game then I can't really blame them because it's a bonus that the title exists in the first place.

StelardActek · Jan 22, 2008, 09:06 AM // 09:06

Quote:

Originally Posted by Friar Khan

In my opinion, the best way to do this is:

If you've gotten Survivor or LDoA on a (new) character and then start to delete it, and if you have another PvE character of the same profession, there should be a dialog asking you if you'd like to transfer the title that other character.

Other methods just seem messy to me.

I don't agree with the idea that Anet shouldn't ever allow older characters to get a title like Survivor. If Anet has the time to code it then there'll be people who'll enjoy it and it won't cheapen the title considerably. On the other hand, if they don't have time to code it into the game then I can't really blame them because it's a bonus that the title exists in the first place.

I like this idea a lot. Please post a new thread about it so I can sign it.

MithranArkanere · Jan 22, 2008, 02:13 PM // 14:13

They could just make them linked to professions.

It's the same to get survivor with Any mesmer.

So, you want to have survivor in your mesmer, you make another mesmer, and all PvE mesmers you make since then get the survivor.

That should do.

bowz · Jan 22, 2008, 06:11 PM // 18:11

/signed

dude great if it would bcome real

Jetdoc · Jan 22, 2008, 06:44 PM // 18:44

Honestly, if they made the proposed change to the title, it would become relatively meaningless, IMO. I have never wanted the title, but when I do pass someone that has it, at least I understand what they did to get it. With this proposed change, it would dilute that accomplishment, as you would never know when in the character's lifecycle it was accomplished.

Isileth · Jan 22, 2008, 08:30 PM // 20:30

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jetdoc

Honestly, if they made the proposed change to the title, it would become relatively meaningless, IMO. I have never wanted the title, but when I do pass someone that has it, at least I understand what they did to get it. With this proposed change, it would dilute that accomplishment, as you would never know when in the character's lifecycle it was accomplished.

Well right now you dont know is someone has farmed it, exploited it, had someone fight for them, used a super deffensive build, mapped out anytime they got into trouble or just played normally and got it.

It doesnt mean anything as it is.
Allowing others to try it wouldnt change any of that.

Kanyatta · Jan 22, 2008, 11:43 PM // 23:43

Quote:

Originally Posted by MithranArkanere

The whole point of the thread is that it has become so easy for the new players that is unfair for the old ones.

You hit the nail right on the head

/signed to OP

Kendar Muert · Jan 22, 2008, 11:47 PM // 23:47

/signed

I've been thinking it would be nice to have on my ele for awhile, but I REALLY do not want to remake him.

StelardActek · Jan 23, 2008, 02:15 AM // 02:15

Quote:

Originally Posted by MithranArkanere

They could just make them linked to professions.

It's the same to get survivor with Any mesmer.

So, you want to have survivor in your mesmer, you make another mesmer, and all PvE mesmers you make since then get the survivor.

That should do.

I wonder if this idea would apply well to all character-based titles...

MithranArkanere · Jan 23, 2008, 03:35 AM // 03:35

Afterall, we don't have re-roll in GW.

Any decission taken can be changed or has no real consequences.
What makes different an elementalist from a Warrior? Its primary attribute and the armor they can buy.

zerulus · Jan 23, 2008, 07:12 AM // 07:12

Since it's been this long and there hasn't even been a mention of anything like this ever occurring is seems highly unlikely, but it would be really nice.

NamelessBeauty · Jan 23, 2008, 06:48 PM // 18:48

Yes I would sign for this

/sign

but I think its not fair since old char can farm Exp easier! What I have in mind is that not just reset to 0 exp but need to gain the requirement for getting Leg survivor. Like if you die 1 time, you need to gain 100,000exp more than the normal legend survivor. Yes I know old char died 400 times. Too bad then, but it's fair imo!

MithranArkanere · Jan 23, 2008, 07:46 PM // 19:46

With the 'make it profession wide' idea, it won't be like that.

You'll have to make another ele if you last one fails to get it...

...but all eles would get it. Since it's almost the same.

carnage-runner · Jan 23, 2008, 07:58 PM // 19:58

It's not roleplaying oriented.
Surviving a long time has nothing to do with the storyline.
It should be account wide until they make survivor title benefit you in some facet of the PVP or PVE world of GW.

MithranArkanere · Jan 23, 2008, 07:59 PM // 19:59

Oh, I forgot!
LdoA and survivor should be either both account wide for professions, if you get LDoA with a cahracter, you lose the survivor too.

Yeah.